John McCain and Sarah Palin have been hammering away at Barack Obama, accusing him of being a Socialist. Sister Sarah was brought onto the ticket with McCain to energize and mobilize the evangelical Christian right to support a McCain presidency.
So isn’t it a little intellectually dishonest for an evangelical Christian to attack a basic tenant of Christian faith? You betcha!
At a rally in Ohio 5 days ago Sarah Palin said:
“Knowing that there are a lot of representatives of Joe the Plumber around here, it doesn’t sound like many of you are going to be supporting Barack the Wealth Spreader in this election,” Palin said. “And that’s because you understand that his plan to redistribute wealth will ultimately punish hard work, and it discourages productivity, and it will stifle the entrepreneurial spirit that made this the greatest country on Earth.”
A few days earlier in Roswell, New Mexico Palin said:Â
“Senator Obama said he wants to quote ‘spread the wealth.’ What that means is he wants government to take your money and dole it out however a politician sees fit.”
“But Joe the Plumber and Ed the Dairy Man, I believe that they think that it sounds more like socialism,” Palin added, referring to both Wurzelbacher and a man holding a sign reading “Ed the Dairy Man” in the crowd. “Friends, now is no time to experiment with socialism. To me, our opponent plans sounds more like big government, which is the problem. Bigger government is not the solution.”
Okay Bible-Thumpers, grab hold of your “Good Book” and get ready to follow the teachings that you believe to be the direct and literal word of God.
Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Acts 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Sarah Palin calls herself an evangelical Christian. As an evangelical, she believes that the bible is the true word of God. Therefore, if Barack Obama is a Socialist for suggesting that the wealthy should pay their fair share according to their ability in order to provide for the common good, then all good Christians must be Socialists.
Vote Barack Obama for President, because the Bible tells you so.
h/t Mike Malloy 10-28-08Â Â
Keith Olbermann’s Campaign Comment tonight was equally on target.
You are correct that the Bible tells us to give to others in need. But the Bible does not tell us to take from others by force (government) in order to give to others. That would fall under “stealing”.
Conservatives opine that Obama believes “that money belongs to the government, rather than to the people who have earned it. “ An interesting notion – where does it come from? Has Obama said that or anything that would necessarily imply that? I’d like to see the quote, please.
Conservatives posits a reality in which money belongs to the people who earn it. A fair concept. Likewise, however, the people’s government belongs to them, and they to it. Part of the social compact of belonging to a civil society is assisting in the upkeep of that society. Conservatives and their ilk call that theft by taxation; I take a less nihilistic attitude toward it: it’s the price of being part of this society.
Now, we can debate all we want about the proper role and extent of that government that we’ve established among ourselves, but our essential civic obligation to fund whatever we collectively deem a proper role for government is, or ought to be, unquestioned. It is, indeed, a form of patriotism. There’s a reason our system has such a low rate of tax delinquency compared to most of the rest of the world, and it’s not some inherent moral superiority. It’s a fundamental support and consent of the governed, which has been the unique hallmark of American society from its founding.
We face, at the moment, huge levels of public debt. I could go on about how eight years ago, before the supposedly wonderful tax cuts that McCain would now extend (after excoriating them as irresponsible when proposed), we enjoyed not only prosperity but a surplus in public coffers, but that’s another discussion. Suffice it to say that right now we’re in the hole – big time. To them propose further tax cuts thus begs the simple question, which Obama asked, “And how will the revenue lost to the government by those cuts be made up?†The “paying for†shorthand for that concept is just that, as anyone who’s followed Washington tax policy for the past generation knows. Reagan himself insisted that tax reform in 1986 be “revenue neutral†– that is, that it pay for itself and not result in further deficits.
The vaunted Laffer Curve concept, which is the great refuge of all who favor cutting all taxes all the time regardless of consequences, has shown itself over the past eight years to be, like any other abstract idea, inherently limited in practice. It doesn’t always work, Santa does not come every Christmas. Sometimes, we have to make hard choices. That’s what Obama was asking: What’s the hard choice, the cut or other offset, that McCain proposes to make up for the loss of revenue that the cuts he now supports will entail. Eight years ago – nay, two years ago – John McCain would have been brave enough to ask the same hard question. But the requirements of Republican Pavlovian response are strong – too strong for McCain’s judgment, and far too strong for conservatives to recognize through their ideologically pure rose tinted glasses.
First commenter Travis is correct.
Taxes are not stealing. That’s the most juvenile thing I’ve ever read.
Stealing? Who is going to pay for this war? Who is going to pay for protecting our Country? Just the middle class, should they only shoulder this burden? And when the middle class is described as anyone making less than $250,000 (ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME), you have no agrument what-so-ever. Only 5% of Americans make over $250,000 and the tax hikes that everyone is fretting over is merely taking away the cuts that Bush set in the beginning of his first term.
Stealing. Sure. Enron execs getting their golden parachutes and those who worked for the company for decades losing their pensions? THAT IS STEALING.
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
As a citizen you are obligated to pay your taxes, it is consent to have money taken from your wages in order to help fund the things that benefit us ALL.
Try growing up and understand that we all have the shared burden of taking care of our fellow Americans. It’s patriotic and it’s our duty.
It is one thing to question where your taxes go, and quite another to be opposed to paying taxes in general. And at what point does it become “stealing”?
Corporations steal from their employees when they send top executives on lavish retreats, leaving no money for employee pay or benefit increases.
Corporations steal from the taxpayers when they expect bailout for their own malfeasance or when they direct their employees to county health clinics because they are too cheap or greedy to provide health insurance.
Corporations steal from consumers when they monopolize a market and waste money or produce a bad product (Microsoft, anyone?) and then overcharge for the product to recoup the losses or just to make more money.
And it is not true anymore that badly-run companies just go out of business — they simply ask the government for a handout (GM? Chrysler? The Toll Roads?).
For eight years, the Bush administration has been working overtime to protect and encourage this sort of behavior. Why, the administration gave taxpayer money to the banks and what are they doing? Hoarding it! They care only about themselves.
And McCain-Palin will only continue that tradition.
Bible aside…………
Its funny how correcting unfair tax policy that favors the obscenely wealthy people and corporations is considered stealing and redistributing wealth.
Even Warren Buffett and Ben Stein are aware of the unfair benefit they are receiving under the current tax law.
It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic. Boiled down to its essence, some people are losing their standard of living so that others may procure boob jobs and botox injections. I would ask, is a welfare recipient any more of a “parasite” than someone who doesn’t work and drives a huge, gas-sucking SUV to the salon for their “Mystic Tan”?
The tragic part is these Kool-Aid-drinking “Joe the Plumber” types who can’t or won’t understand that the chances of moving up from the economic class one was born in are extremely slim. For some odd reason, the wealthy are a club they desperately want to belong to.
Others just want to make a decent living and be happy, but because they aren’t bloodthirsty money-worshippers, Republicans portray them as lazy and lacking in ambition. This is also one reason why Republicans tend to disdain government employees (the other is their unionization). If you aren’t grubbing for money your whole life, there must be something wrong with you!
Our nation was founded on the concept of freeloading. We want alot, but are unwilling to pay for it. I am disgusted with the attitude that taxes are a form of theft. Given the economic, deregulated glutteney of the past 30 years, it is time to pay the piper.
Denmother, if you haven’t already you should read Joan Didion’s book “Where I Was From.” The overarching thesis is how Californians pride themselves on being rugged and independent, when in actuality the state’s economy was for decades dependent on Federal largess, beginning with railroads, then agriculture (the amount of water it takes to grow alfalfa sprouts in the San Joaquin Valley will astonish you), extending to water projects, ports, and highways, and ending with aerospace (and now we have biotech and maybe will have Federally-sponsored stem cell research). It’s a great book.
Doug, you make an interesting point. I love how OC conservatives rant and rave about big government and its intrusion. If one looks at the history of OC it would still be farm land in the sticks were it not for public investment in the form of defense spending that came during the war and migrated into defense contracting during the Cold War. I laugh out loud when I hear a retired aerospace worker get lathered up about big government apparently unaware of the irony they are angry at themselves.
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Obviously we are not on the same page here, as in “of one heart and one soul.”
And the Christians did this among themselves. But they still had to pay taxes to Caesar. Christian or not, to me it is sad that our country is so divided on how our society should progress. We have all made mistakes in the past, but does it do any good to point and say they did this or he did that. Past Presidents get blamed for a lot but that is just one man, when there are many factors and people that can make situations go one way or the other. If I agree with the next President (and Congress) or not, I will honor and support them.
I leave you with one other interesting verse from the Bible:
2 Thessalonians 3:6-13
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.
7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,
8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you;
9 not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example.
10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies.
12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.
13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.
Sharing was a Biblical principal not a command and existed only among Christians not among all men.
People should be allowed to keep every penny of their wealth unless it is acquired by lying or stealing and then it should be removed and the people jailed.
No one whould be forced to pay for anyone elso. Just like when this country was founded their should be no welfare, no disability, no unemployment. People need to get off their butts and work and if they can’t should take care of family.
I have worked hard all my life. I am middle class and I am sick and tired for paying for all the slackers.
I know that the bible says to redistribute the wealth. As a christian, I give to the poor. I guess what is frustrating is that I am not going to have a choice who I give to. I agree with Judi. It specifically says to continue to work. I am afraid that my hard earned money is going to someone that feels as though the world owes him or her. Someone that isn’t trying to get a job, but still expects for everyone else to pay for he/ she to continue to “get by.” I want a choice where my money goes.
This is a complete mis-interpretation of the Bible. We are called as INDIVIDUALS and as the Church body to help those in need, those sick, afflicted, orphans and widows. In the history of mankind, no other organization or religion has done more good on the planet that those judeo-christian faiths. From feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, helping the oppressed, widows and orphans. This can not be contested and is fact.
Government and taxation in this country was instituted quote “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Justice, tranquility, defense, general welfare does not mean tax those that have earned to proved to those that are unwilling. The poorest of poor in the US pale in comparison to those poor in Africa, South America and elsewhere.
Go ahead and say I dont know, my family and I give reqularly to support children and give our time to fly to Bolivia two times a year and elsewhere to put our hands on the task of helping those in need with no alternatives. If you are here in America YOU DO HAVE ALTERNATIVES for 90% of those currently destitue. For those that are truly in trouble we as individuals and in the church need to help those, and NOT our government. Should the government do so, I dont even have a problem with that other than to put them on a plan to workto earn a living and provide for their immediate needs.
I know you are saying I dont know what it is to be in need, well I do, I have lived on a fantastic income and lost my job and all our posessions and I can say that we were helped, not by unemployement insurance, welfare or otherwise but by those in our church and community that helped my family survive until I found work again and now we are in our third year trying to get ontop of our financial situation. I am responsible and not looking for a bail out to solve the problem.
Personal responsibility is the answer not socialism or more taxation.
Wow. Now your doing the typical democratic ploy to just throw something out that seems to support what your saying, when it in fact has no revalance to what your saying. Your are being tyipcal Heretics. Twisting Gods word to apply it to your sick ideas. Travis is correct. The disciples and followers of Christ weren’t the government. Obama is a socialist and the direction our country is heading is a dangerous one.
And in comment to Ellinorianne post. “Taxes are stealing”:. THink about it When were paying more than 20 percent to the government and we only are required to pay 10 percent to God doesnt that seem a bit off. By doing that were putting government before God. If What i think is it need to be a flat tax for every one. Say 10 percent that way we arent putting the government ahead of God. And if you say that “then we wont have enough money to run the country” we’ll maybe we should stop wasting it on failing programs like Social Security, Public School Systems and others. We just need to get the morons out of office that are there now and get someone that can fix our budget ( I nominate Dave Ramsey, Hes got his head on straight) so that instead of being trillions of dollars in debt we can be trillions in the positive. If anything a couple extra trillion dollars is going to help the economy than a stupid stimulus package that Obama is proposing. That just what we need more people expecting and relying on the Government to help them. If we would just realize that we cant buy stuff with money thats not our sthen we wouldnt be in a big mess right now.
The Bible tells us to give from the heart of our own free will.
Forced “giving” by government coercion does not meet that requirement.